Comments on: Illich’s Institutional Spectrum http://letterz.wordpress.com/2007/04/17/illichs-institutional-spectrum/ "Information, severed from thoughtful action, is dead, a mind-crushing load" -John Dewey Sat, 14 Mar 2009 22:55:21 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: beaky http://letterz.wordpress.com/2007/04/17/illichs-institutional-spectrum/#comment-4 beaky Fri, 20 Apr 2007 22:11:16 +0000 http://letterz.wordpress.com/2007/04/17/illichs-institutional-spectrum/#comment-4 John, Thanks so much for your comments, and thanks for taking a look at my nascent blog. It's coming together much more slowly than I had hoped, but I hope you'll continue to vist as it gets more robust. I'm so glad you mentioned The Challenges of Ivan Illich. I haven't read it, but it's on the list. I actually just met Lee Hoinacki, one of the authors of the book, on Tuesday, and I'm working on a post about his talk. Good point about the two axes. Illich acknowledges that his use of the terms "right" and "left" to describe his spectrum may be misunderstood. He says that he doesn't mean the spectrum to be the same as the one used for ideological classification. But, as you point out, it is important to make this clear when talking about his institutional spectrum. As he writes in Deschooling Society, "men of the left are not always characterized by their opposition to the manipulative institutions, which I locate to the right on the spectrum." John,

Thanks so much for your comments, and thanks for taking a look at my nascent blog. It’s coming together much more slowly than I had hoped, but I hope you’ll continue to vist as it gets more robust.

I’m so glad you mentioned The Challenges of Ivan Illich. I haven’t read it, but it’s on the list. I actually just met Lee Hoinacki, one of the authors of the book, on Tuesday, and I’m working on a post about his talk.

Good point about the two axes. Illich acknowledges that his use of the terms “right” and “left” to describe his spectrum may be misunderstood. He says that he doesn’t mean the spectrum to be the same as the one used for ideological classification.

But, as you point out, it is important to make this clear when talking about his institutional spectrum. As he writes in Deschooling Society, “men of the left are not always characterized by their opposition to the manipulative institutions, which I locate to the right on the spectrum.”

]]> By: John Verity http://letterz.wordpress.com/2007/04/17/illichs-institutional-spectrum/#comment-3 John Verity Fri, 20 Apr 2007 01:11:52 +0000 http://letterz.wordpress.com/2007/04/17/illichs-institutional-spectrum/#comment-3 You might be interested to know that there is a book, published in 2002, a few months before Illich died, called The Challenges of Ivan Illich. It is a collection of essays by various people in his circle. One of the essays is by a librarian in Berlin who often worked with Illich, locating books and other items that he needed for his intensive historical research. She remembers, quite lovingly and with some amazement, the breadth of Illich's familiarity with and curiousity about research materials. He was constantly telling her about books she'd never heard of, and so forth. Worth a look, if you get a chance. Also, I know that when he first came to America (early 1950s) and worked as a priest in an upper Manhattan parish that was experiencing an influx of Puerto Ricans, Illich saw that the church in NY - predominantly Irish - had no understanding of these foreigners from an island in the Caribbean. In response, one of the first things he did to help out was to work with the local public librarian in pulling together a collection of books in Spanish - mainly for children. This was years before the public schools had begun to respond to the new Puerto Rican population. I look forward to reading more of your thoughts about libraries vs. schools. Fascinating topic! Oh, I would take (small) issue with your statement that Illich saw manipulative vs. convivial institutions as the same axis as right vs. left. I think he saw the former axis as orthagonal to the latter. In other words, schooling in Cuba was just as "bad" as schooling in America. John in NJ You might be interested to know that there is a book, published in 2002, a few months before Illich died, called The Challenges of Ivan Illich. It is a collection of essays by various people in his circle. One of the essays is by a librarian in Berlin who often worked with Illich, locating books and other items that he needed for his intensive historical research. She remembers, quite lovingly and with some amazement, the breadth of Illich’s familiarity with and curiousity about research materials. He was constantly telling her about books she’d never heard of, and so forth.
Worth a look, if you get a chance.

Also, I know that when he first came to America (early 1950s) and worked as a priest in an upper Manhattan parish that was experiencing an influx of Puerto Ricans, Illich saw that the church in NY – predominantly Irish – had no understanding of these foreigners from an island in the Caribbean. In response, one of the first things he did to help out was to work with the local public librarian in pulling together a collection of books in Spanish – mainly for children. This was years before the public schools had begun to respond to the new Puerto Rican population.

I look forward to reading more of your thoughts about libraries vs. schools. Fascinating topic!

Oh, I would take (small) issue with your statement that Illich saw manipulative vs. convivial institutions as the same axis as right vs. left. I think he saw the former axis as orthagonal to the latter. In other words, schooling in Cuba was just as “bad” as schooling in America.

John in NJ

]]>